Proving Calvinism Without Paul Part 11 – Revelation
Posted on 04. Jan, 2010 by Les in Proving Calvinism Without Paul
The Sovereign Ending
So it turns out there’s this book that was written before the earth was created. It contains all the names of the people who will be saved, and excludes everyone who won’t be. Doesn’t that mean that the destinies of men are decided by God before we were even made?
While we’re talking about the end, here’s a question. When non-calvinists talk about sovereign election they use terms like “robots”, “puppets”, or the occasional vulgar, emotion-pumping analogy, “Forced love is rape, and God is not a divine rapist.”.
So here’s my question: Do we have the choice to turn from God once we’re welcomed into heaven? …Answer carefully.
If you say no, then you have a God that is doing what the Calvinist claims He’s doing here on earth, making His people love Him somehow. If that’s the case, what do you do with your programming, puppeteer, rapist claims? If you say yes we can turn away from God, then eternal life is not eternal at all, it’s conditional and at best potentially eternal based on the perseverance of your will… Your “eternal” life is proportional to your willpower.
I digress. Let’s take a look at sovereign grace and angry wrath as the Bible comes to an end.
My Top 5 Texts From Revelation
Revelation 7:4-8
“And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.”
Revelation 17:8
“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.”
Revelation 17:17
“for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.”
Revelation 19:9
“And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”
Revelation 13:8
“and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.”
Other Notable Texts
Revelation 5:9-10
“And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation,
and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
and they shall reign on the earth.”"
Revelation 16:6
“For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink.
It is what they deserve!”"
Revelation 17:14
“They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”"
Revelation 13:5
“And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.”
Revelation 13:7
“Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,”
Revelation 13:10
“If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.”
Revelation 13:15
“And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.”
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Clayton
Mar 7th, 2012
My thoughts (which are certainly fallible)on your ‘God doing what Calvin claims in heaven example’. Every man on earth, Adam forward, was depraved and was born with a compulsion to sin–and to feed that we were placed in a world with temptation (beginning with the certain fruit on the certain tree in the garden) to bring light to that sin nature. But in heaven, in our glorifed bodies there is no sin nature and there certainly won’t be any temptation so of course we won’t turn from God. Put that depraved nature back in us in heaven along with temptation–and just like in the garden–we would all eventually turn away. So it just seems like two totally different situations to me.
But a bigger question — as I researched using the ‘Gospel Project’ materials–which I like from what I’ve seen so far,I come to another question. As I research whose involved with the materials I see this common theme on web sites over and over and it makes me ask–why are we spending all this time debating this issue (Calvinism vs Compatibility)–what difference does it make? Those on both sides seem to agree salvation is a gift of grace received by faith in Christ–iniated by the Holy Spirit. So why not focus on the points of agreement–and lets work together to reach a lost world for Christ. Whether those saved and damned are predestined under God sovereinty or they are allowed to recieve and reject under God’s soverinty–does it really matter? This has been debated among Godly people for 400+ years are we gonna all of a sudden figure it out and solve it? Or maybe we should learn from Forest Gump (”maybe its both”)and go with the BF&M (which leaves room for both sides)and then let’s just agree to disagree as long as we agree that salvation is in Christ alone. If I’m missing something on why this debate is so important please help me. I can see debating the right to have a differnet perspective and not being labled a heretic or it resulting in division–but the issue itself, I’m not grasping why it warrants so much time and energy as long as neither side is going to extremes.
Back to the ‘Gospel Project’–is this a curriculum I can use without being pulled into this debate. Does it focus on areas of agreement or is a certain perspective obvious. I need to know because otherwise I’ll have to proof it word for word as I will be held, as I should, accountable. God bless you in all you do and looking forward to hearing your feedback.