The Basics: Does God Choose to Save Certain People?
Posted on 07. Dec, 2009 by Les in Basics
“And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” -Romans 8:30
One thing any Bible believing Christian must agree on is that some people go to Hell when they die. God’s just wrath against some sinners is not forgiven, and they take the wrath themselves. If Jesus died so that people could be saved, and God is powerful enough to do whatever He wants, why doesn’t He make everyone go to Heaven? Do people go to Hell because they just didn’t make the right decision?
Does God Choose?
The Bible teaches, from beginning to end, that God does whatever He pleases. He creates things out of nothing. He gives, and takes away. He parts seas, and makes pillars of fire. And He most certainly chooses to use people for His purposes.
The Old Testament tells the story of a Chosen people called Israel. God chose a single Pagan, named Abraham, out of all the other Pagans in the world, to reveal Himself in an intimate way. God made huge promises to Abraham, and said that the whole world would be blessed through his seed. Abraham believed the promise. A couple questions come to mind: First, why did God choose Abraham?, and second, Could Abraham have just said, “No thanks.”? Did God leave the selection of the person who would Father His people, and ultimately be a cradle for the Messiah, up to chance? With God there is no chance.
God has planned all of history, from beginning to end, and He will accomplish all His purposes (Isaiah 46:10). Nothing, especially not the will of creatures, can stop the Creator’s plans. He plans the ends, and chooses the means. God is in control, and we are at His mercy.
Does God Choose in Salvation?
Paul tells the Church of Thessalonica:
“For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ…” -1 Thessalonians 5:9
and again
“But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” -2 Thessalonians 2:13
Jesus, speaking of the end of the world says this:
“And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.” -Mark 13:20
He shortens the days for “The elect, whom he chose”. Some people believe that this “election” is actually just a response of God from outside of time, when he sees who would choose Jesus. Obviously this completely redefines the word election. If God chooses man simply because man chose God, who is ultimately in control of our destinies, us or God? To say God’s salvation is based on our decision completely opposes scripture.
“though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”" -Romans 9:11-13
Scripture clearly states that the election of God is NOT based on Him seeing what we’ll do, but is based strictly on God’s purposes.
“…I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.” -Romans 9:15-16
I’d like to repeat that, to make sure we aren’t missing the point here. God’s mercy or “salvation” depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Why Doesn’t God Save Everyone?
Could God have saved everyone? Absolutely. God is all powerful. The sacrifice of Christ could have saved a million earth’s worth of sinners. Through it, God could have forgiven every sin from Adam to all the people who will be alive when Christ returns. Every rapist, murderer, thief, adulterer, gambler, and goody two shoes who thinks he doesn’t need Jesus could have the blood of Christ applied to them, and they could all go to heaven. So why doesn’t God do it?
God hates sin, and will reveal His power by pouring His eternal wrath out on those who blaspheme His name. God is holy and sinners deserve Hell, we have to never forget this. And the Bible teaches that in order for God to reveal His power and wrath against sin, He will not have mercy on some. It’s not because they were worse, or less spiritual than a saved person, and it’s certainly not because they just didn’t make a good decision about Jesus. It’s because they deserve to go to Hell, and God will pour out His judgement… that’s the bottom line. When we truly appreciate how guilty man is, it makes this question pale at the more mind bending question…
Why Does God Choose to Save Some?
“What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?” -Romans 9:22-24
God chose a people, before the foundation of the world, to be “vessels of mercy”. Not because we deserve it, or because He saw something that He liked in us, but just to show “the riches of his glory”. Praise God! We were “prepared beforehand for glory”!
“…He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.” -Ephesians 1:4-6
Can you believe this?! He chose that we should be “holy and blameless before Him”. He “predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ”… why? “According to the purpose of his will, to the praise of His glorious grace.”. That’s why. He loves us because He chose to love us. To show off how AMAZING He is! We will forever praise Him for his grace! Hallelujah!!
Isn’t That Unfair?
“You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?” -Romans 9:19-21
Again, we return to where we started. God is God. He can do, and indeed does, whatever He wants to. All deserve Hell, who are we to question Him for saving some of us?
I beg you, anyone who has a problem with God’s electing grace, do not despise God’s right to choose. If you are a Christian, this truth secures you. You didn’t choose God, He chose you, and He will never let you go. He is truly working all things for your good, including your salvation. You know Him because He allowed you to know Him. All the glory goes to God alone!
What About the One’s Who Aren’t Elect?
First of all, remember that we don’t know who the elect are. From our perspective, we need to treat everyone as if they were elect. We preach the gospel to everyone we can, and pray that God would save them. We should trust that the Holy Spirit will work in the people we share the gospel with, so we don’t worry about watering down the message to suit someone’s sensibilities. Preach the true gospel, and God will save His people. The best thing you can do for someone that looks like they aren’t saved, is share the gospel.
Secondly, remember that there is nobody that will desire to be saved and be turned away. We all hate God naturally, and are spiritually blind, so when any person desires to know Christ, it’s only because God opened their eyes. That doesn’t mean there won’t be people that claim to love the “jesus” of their imaginations, and just want a happier life. Everybody wants that. It doesn’t mean they want to be saved. So preach the real gospel to them, and pray for God to move.
Finally, we must trust that God is wise. Our God is good and loving. Some people will go to Hell… bluntly, some people that you know will go to Hell. But we must trust that God is just and will do what is right, even if we don’t understand His purposes.
If God were fair, we would all go to Hell. Praise God that he chose to pull some of us from the flames!
WGJake
Dec 8th, 2009
Very good stuff.
Nathaniel Watts
Dec 15th, 2009
Interesting, and though I am still preparing to answer your response to my questions on a previous post – this one has brought up more questions:
If God has predestined all of us whom are Christians to be saved, then what is the purpose of missions?
What is the purpose of going out and sharing the Gospel – if those people are already predestined to hell or heaven [because certainly then, our efforts would not be necessary]. Yet, in Romans 10:14, it clearly says:
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
I myself have gone to multiple countries in order to share and proclaim the love of Jesus Christ and His glorious Gospel — but if those people will be saved or go to hell regardless of my efforts… then why count the cost?
I mean, clearly – God is God, and uses those whom are ready and willing to be used… but “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few…” [Luke 10:2] — why work for a harvest, if the harvest will be worked regardless?
YES YES, we should strive to do it because of our love for our Savior – not for the sake of works, but for the sake of our love for Him… but if it will be done without me spending my time and efforts and finances, if those souls are saved or lost regardless if someone is sent to them — then why go in the first place?
Why pray for the lost and the broken-hearted if the result is already chosen?
I do not pose these questions to refute you, no – I do it to encourage conversation. I enjoy asking questions and gaining perspective, and perhaps – by the grace of God – both parties may grow in faith and understanding of our Great and Glorious Creator and Savior.
Again, thanks for your encouragement on Twitter, and here. God is taking me through a season of really delving into the deeps of His Word, and so I get excited in talking about such things.
Les
Dec 15th, 2009
Well, simply put, because God doesn’t save people without us preaching the gospel.
“faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:17
This is the means God uses to save people. Could He just randomly turn the lights on in His elect, sure. But He has deemed that He will use His people to preach and open the eyes of His people.
Does that make sense?
Nathaniel Watts
Dec 15th, 2009
Yes indeed it does –
but if they’ve already been chosen to believe or not believe – even before all of us were created – then why go tell them?
If my actions will not dictate the result, then why act?
Les
Dec 15th, 2009
wow, such great questions. It’s awesome to hear someone searching.
God doesn’t only elect to justify people. He also makes them born again, completely changing their nature. A Christian WANTS to preach the gospel because God is working in them to want to.
“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” -Philippians 2:12-13
You see, nobody can just say “I’m one of the elect” and just sit back and enjoy the ride to heaven. We know we’re saved by our fruits. If God isn’t working in you and changing you, then it proves you aren’t saved.
This is why good works aren’t meritorious. The good works are proof that your nature has been changed. On some level, you aren’t even the one doing them.
alastair
Jan 9th, 2010
hey guys.
I confess that I get mad and upset with God etc when hearing and believing this stuff (the article on the left)
I have much hate and shortcoming. But if God would change me, then I would be free. I understand a believer still struggles, but I feel upset that….. though I WANT to be loved by God because I want what is good and to be saved and be with Him who is good, in my struggle or doubt, God, according to the article on the left, can just…….. not care at all for a person, to let it be possible for them to be saved. its all just like… God’s pick. of course I am nothing, and neither is anything in comparision to Him, but like…….. He just loves some and not others?! they all are equally unworthy, but He just picks some? so that He is glorified that he has mercy and saves some…. and he He is glorified in punishing what is due…… If this is all the case…. well, it just doesn’t feel like love to me. we just seem to be …. pawns. It sorta seems to me like honor and glory would hold value when it is surrendered and willfully given. instead of actions being self orchestrated and forced.
it doesnt feel liek love if out of force a being would make other beings worship it. but what if those lesser beings recognized its holiness, and chose to worship it. I dont know. if humans have no…. choice or actions of their own, are we then just like… stuffed animals that someone can just circle around themself and say I am great? forgive me please in anything, I know I am not good. this is just all so… depressing and unloving seeming!
alastair
Jan 9th, 2010
this is just a sketch of a thought. but for someone hearing this….. then, in terms of our actions we can take…. our salvation hinges on if we can truly be born again. Which, we can’t actually do. sooooooooo does someone just……. sit there? and hope God saves them? I can try many differnet things, but I know I cant make God do anything. its just all sad.
Les
Jan 9th, 2010
Well here’s one thing you need to keep in mind. God does give us the choice. Every man does have that free-will choice to choose Christ that the Arminian talks about. But what they fail to realize is that nobody makes the right choice. We all choose oursleves, and choose to hate God.
We have all chosen to hate God. We’re not robots. We’re real bad people. So God changes the hearts of the ones He’s chosen to demonstrate His overbearing mercy on.
If we would turn to God on our own, and obey Him. No sacrifice would be needed. Just come back to God, be good, and problem solved. But the problem is so great, God had to become a man and be murdered.
I know it’s a hard concept, and I hope God helps you to see it as beautiful instead of a snare.
God bless.
alastair
Jan 10th, 2010
thank you for your kind response. I am talking with my friend Rick tongiht about it.
Les
Jan 14th, 2010
@alastair you might find this new article helpful. http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-man-have-a-free-will/
Rob
Feb 9th, 2010
I was raised non-Calvinist and wasn’t even aware of Calvinist thought until a few years ago. The thing that disturbs me the most is that I always understood that God, being the omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-present creator, had taken responsibility for sin. Even though He didn’t force Adam and Eve to sin, He created a situation (a set-up in a sense), knowing what the outcome would be. That didn’t impact God’s love, justice, righteousness, etc because He then paid the price for the sin, opening the way to salvation. I’m not like Adam. I was not born without sin. I am a sinner, and by the time I understood that fact I had already demonstrated my sinfulness in a multitude of ways. So I was born into this situation. I didn’t choose it. And, if God sovereignly chooses not to make me one of the elect, then I am lost. It doesn’t help to say that we all deserve Hell. We were born deserving Hell. As long as salvation is available to everyone, it’s not an issue. But if you are born deserving Hell and there’s nothing that you can do about it, that is a reflection on who God is. It does not present Him as a loving and compassionate being. If we had some say so as to whether we ever sinned in the first place, cutting ourselves off from God’s love, that would also relieve God of the responsibility of people being in rebellion towards Him. Again, the problem is that you are born in this cursed condition. If you have no way out then the person who created you in that state is responsible for your destiny. But, if you have an out (through Jesus’ sacrifice) and you simply don’t avail yourself of it, then you are responsible. The only way God does not appear to be a cruel monster is if salvation is available to all who will come. If it is withheld from the “non-elect” then God is seen to be responsible for lost souls who want to know God’s love, but are driven away…like chaff. And I don’t think that the statement that only the elect will seek after God holds water. No one in their right mind would want to spend eternity in Hell, separated from any light, love, or goodness, and without any reason to exist, yet doomed to exist forever. I’m not saying that there aren’t some hard-hearted people that would choose Hell over God, but most people would jump at the opportunity to be saved. When people realize just how much danger they’re in, they reach out to God with great gratitude and praise, especially when they don’t have to consider, bitterly, that salvation is needed but not available, as in Calvinist teaching.
Les
Feb 9th, 2010
Hey Rob,
Thanks for the comment. These are valid concerns and I know where you’re coming from. I’ll do my best to shed light on, at least, where I’m coming from. I’m not trying to extinguish your concerns. But hear me out.
One at a time.
“It does not present Him as a loving and compassionate being.”
We don’t deny God’s loving and compassionate character, we just define it differently than today’s “God can’t do anything but love” Church. I understand where you see our limitation on God’s love, and it’s valid. But I’d like to point out the huge limitation the “free willers”put on God’s love.
When we say Jesus made it possible for everyone to be saved, but doesn’t effectually save anyone until they choose Him, we are limiting the actual power of the cross to the point of powerlessness in the face of man’s free will. Jesus can’t save a single person, unless they want to be saved.
Reformed thinkers, on the other hand, say that Christ was ACTUALLY redeeming a people on the cross. Those people WILL be saved, because Jesus ACTUALLY atoned for their sins. Belief in this life is God’s actualization in us of the work that has already been accomplished in Christ.
So there are the limitations you have to choose from:
1.God tries to save all, but is powerless to save any.
2.God perfectly saves those whom He chooses, and allows the earned wrath to abide on those He doesn’t choose to save.
Les
Feb 9th, 2010
“Again, the problem is that you are born in this cursed condition. If you have no way out then the person who created you in that state is responsible for your destiny.”
Again, valid argument. I would go into covenant headship and Adam being our representative… but let’s just go to Christ.
“But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” -Romans 5:15
Now think about this. How are we saved? By faith in Christ, we are UNITED with Him in His work. We dont’ actually accomplish righteousness, it is imputed to us because Christ becomes our representative. I hope this is something you agree with me on. The righeousness of Christ is NOT EARNED, it’s imputed.
Now, I submit to you that the reason our righteousness can be imputed and not earned is because this is the same way our guilt is acquired.
We are made guilty simply in our union with Adam… we are made righteous simply by our union with Christ.
Are we ACTUALLY guilty? Yes. We live out the nature we have. Our actual sins compound and testify our guilt. The bad tree produces bad fruit. But you trees don’t make themselves bad trees, they’re the trees of their nature.
Is a Christian ACTUALLY righteous? Yes. Again we’re good trees, so we produce good fruit. And we don’t choose to become good trees, God changes our natures.
If we deny the ability for guilt to be imputed, then we must also reject the ability for righteousness to be imputed… at least if we want to be consistent.
Rob
Feb 12th, 2010
Thanks for the follow-up Les. I’m still chewing on it. For now, here’s a little story. I honestly don’t know if it’s true or not. It has all the markings of a morality tale, but who knows. The story is that during WWII a German submarine or surface vessel was destroyed in combat with a British warship. When the British began conducting rescue operations, all of the German sailors were happy to be pulled from the cold Atlantic, even though being rescued meant that they would become POWs. However, there was one sailor who was a hard-core Nazi, and he refused to be saved. One British sailor, thinking that the German was injured and unable to come aboard on his own, climbed down to the water level and attempted to help his enemy, who pulled away and spit at him. He was left to his fate.
That’s how I was taught that God dealt with us. We were all in extreme peril, and once we realized this, by regarding all of the threats, warnings, and examples in the Bible, we were happy to find that God was reaching down to save us. He didn’t make distinctions. Whosoever will. He continued to offer rescue, even to those who spit at Him, until their lives here were over and their destiny was sealed.
I responded to God while I was His enemy. I didn’t hate Him, but I knew that my life was offensive to Him and yet He was offering to save me. I gratefully accepted the offer of salvation in order to escape my doom. Then He changed me, made me new, and is still working to conform me to the image of Christ. I am way far away from where I would like/need to be, and still struggle daily with sin. If I doubted that God had offered me salvation, that I wasn’t one of the elect, then every time I fell flat on my face or faced some great challenge or struggle, I would be left wondering if maybe I wasn’t one of the elect after all, and that I had only been deceiving myself. I KNOW what I did. I accepted Jesus as savior and lord. And, because I never wondered (or doubted) that God loved me and offered me salvation, I had confidence. When I began looking at Calvinism, I began to doubt.
How do I know I one of the elect? I keep thinking of Matthew 7:22-23 and similar passages.
Les
Feb 12th, 2010
“I responded to God while I was His enemy. I didn’t hate Him”… “Then He changed me”
The Bible teaches that natural man hates God.
“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” -Romans 8:7-8
You’re denying this truth if you say that you pleased God, by believing, while you were in the flesh.
You see, God didn’t change you AFTER you didn’t hate Him, and understood who He was, He had to change you first. We are all the nazi that spits in God’s face. But the new birth is a miracle God performs in a God-hater, making them a God-lover.
You’re trying to say that YOU changed you into a God-lover, then God changed you some more after you accepted… do you see the problem?
What does scripture say? Does it say we make ourselves see the kingdom, accept it, then we’re born again? No, it says:”unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
We can’t see the gospel until our eyes are opened. We can’t hear it until our deafness is cured. We can’t respond until we’re made alive from deadness in sins and trespasses. God does those things, alone. It’s all by grace.
DUDE! Just remembered, I wrote the perfect response to the Nazi story. Please read this, it might help you at least see where we’re coming from.
http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-king-and-the-pirates/
Les
Feb 15th, 2010
“How do I know I one of the elect?”
That’s simple enough.
Everyone sins, saved and unsaved, so falling on your face shouldn’t make you doubt your salvation… it should remind us of the reason Christ had to come for us.
The way you know you’re saved is: Do you love the God of the Bible? Do you want to serve Him? Do you desire to live a holy life?(note I didn’t say you’d accomplish your desire) Do you hate sin? Do you love your brothers and sisters in Christ?
Again, you’ve already heard the answer, and sound theology doesn’t change. refer back to depravity.
Natural man does not want God as revealed in Scripture. Regenerate man wants more than anything God as revealed in Scripture.
Do you want God? There’s your answer.
Rob
Feb 25th, 2010
All these days and I’m still not ready to comment. Heads still spinning after listening to John MacArthur, reading Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards….
Still thinking about things in the same basic way. I may want God, but what do I do if God doesn’t want me? You can call me Esau.
Les
Feb 26th, 2010
You’re missing the fact that no one wants God. So if you do want God, it’s because you’ve been born again.
The idea that people are going to want to come to God and He’s going to turn them away is not Calvinistic. It’s a made up accusation.
Everyone who calls on the name of Jesus for salvation will be saved… and the only people who will do that are the people God has changed by His sovereign grace.