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	<title>Comments on: The Basics: Does God Choose to Save Certain People?</title>
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	<description>The Mind of Les Lanphere</description>
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		<title>By: Cory D. Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-520</link>
		<dc:creator>Cory D. Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-520</guid>
		<description>To answer some of the early comments...  The need for evangelism or prayer.  I asked that same question when I first started down the reformed road.  It was explained quite simply to me.  Election, predestination, atonement, whatever other Calvinist words you want to throw in there doesn&#039;t preclude the great commission, the last commandment of Jesus our Lord (or any other commandments for that matter).  The answer is simple: we&#039;re commanded to.  Being elect doesn&#039;t change that.  We are still commanded to go into all the nations and pray without ceasing, and that&#039;s what we will do.

It&#039;s important to note, and perhaps Les would like to do a piece on this (I&#039;ve got some stuff, if you&#039;re interested) that there&#039;s a common misconception from outside Calvinism that election saves people.  If you&#039;re elect, you&#039;re saved.  Unfortunately, they aren&#039;t perfectly synonymous.  Here&#039;s the rundown...

Each person of the Godhead has a role, an individual and very specific role.  
The Father selected and marked those for salvation before the beginning of the world.  These were given to the Son as His people.  At the appointed time, the Son came into the world and secured these people’s redemption.  However, election and redemption do not complete the plan of salvation.  Included in God’s plan for recovering lost sinners is the renewing work of the Holy Spirit, by which the benefits of Christ’s obedience and death are applied to the elect.  

The Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ.  He inevitably applies salvation to every sinner whom He intends to save, and it is His intention to save all the elect.  

For some exegesis, let&#039;s look at John 6...

Keep in mind these are the red letters, so they shouldn&#039;t be dismissed as John&#039;s opinion or comentary.  Many Arminians look to this passage, citing verse 40 claiming that it states that it is God’s will that every man shall come to Him.  That verse alone does communicate that, however, one must not take this verse out of context.  One must not overlook the conditional phrase, “who looks to the son and believes in him.&quot;  Let&#039;s focus on verse 37 where Jesus says, “All that the Father gives me will come to me,” and verse 44, &quot;No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.&quot;  Therefore, one can conclude that 1. the Father will draw; 2. unless the Father draws, no one will come;  3. if no one can come without being drawn, it&#039;s God&#039;s decision who to draw, choose, elect (it&#039;s his free will that&#039;s demonstrated, not ours); and 4. once drawn, it&#039;s impossible not to come.  (The paraphrase is mine, but these are Jesus&#039; own words.)  Therefore, everyone whom God desires to be saved, and has elected for salvation, will be the ones mentioned in verse 40 who do “look” and “believe”.  

James White puts it this way, “Those who are given come: those who are not, do not. The divine order is clear: God’s giving of men to the Son precedes and determines their coming to Christ. First comes the action of God, and then the action of men. God acts, man responds, never the other way around.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer some of the early comments&#8230;  The need for evangelism or prayer.  I asked that same question when I first started down the reformed road.  It was explained quite simply to me.  Election, predestination, atonement, whatever other Calvinist words you want to throw in there doesn&#8217;t preclude the great commission, the last commandment of Jesus our Lord (or any other commandments for that matter).  The answer is simple: we&#8217;re commanded to.  Being elect doesn&#8217;t change that.  We are still commanded to go into all the nations and pray without ceasing, and that&#8217;s what we will do.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to note, and perhaps Les would like to do a piece on this (I&#8217;ve got some stuff, if you&#8217;re interested) that there&#8217;s a common misconception from outside Calvinism that election saves people.  If you&#8217;re elect, you&#8217;re saved.  Unfortunately, they aren&#8217;t perfectly synonymous.  Here&#8217;s the rundown&#8230;</p>
<p>Each person of the Godhead has a role, an individual and very specific role.<br />
The Father selected and marked those for salvation before the beginning of the world.  These were given to the Son as His people.  At the appointed time, the Son came into the world and secured these people’s redemption.  However, election and redemption do not complete the plan of salvation.  Included in God’s plan for recovering lost sinners is the renewing work of the Holy Spirit, by which the benefits of Christ’s obedience and death are applied to the elect.  </p>
<p>The Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ.  He inevitably applies salvation to every sinner whom He intends to save, and it is His intention to save all the elect.  </p>
<p>For some exegesis, let&#8217;s look at John 6&#8230;</p>
<p>Keep in mind these are the red letters, so they shouldn&#8217;t be dismissed as John&#8217;s opinion or comentary.  Many Arminians look to this passage, citing verse 40 claiming that it states that it is God’s will that every man shall come to Him.  That verse alone does communicate that, however, one must not take this verse out of context.  One must not overlook the conditional phrase, “who looks to the son and believes in him.&#8221;  Let&#8217;s focus on verse 37 where Jesus says, “All that the Father gives me will come to me,” and verse 44, &#8220;No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.&#8221;  Therefore, one can conclude that 1. the Father will draw; 2. unless the Father draws, no one will come;  3. if no one can come without being drawn, it&#8217;s God&#8217;s decision who to draw, choose, elect (it&#8217;s his free will that&#8217;s demonstrated, not ours); and 4. once drawn, it&#8217;s impossible not to come.  (The paraphrase is mine, but these are Jesus&#8217; own words.)  Therefore, everyone whom God desires to be saved, and has elected for salvation, will be the ones mentioned in verse 40 who do “look” and “believe”.  </p>
<p>James White puts it this way, “Those who are given come: those who are not, do not. The divine order is clear: God’s giving of men to the Son precedes and determines their coming to Christ. First comes the action of God, and then the action of men. God acts, man responds, never the other way around.”</p>
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		<title>By: Cory D. Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>Cory D. Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-519</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if any of the above posters will read this, but I&#039;ll write it for future readers...  

Laura - Paul answered that question in Romans 9.  Iliaser posted it, but let me attempt to explain.  Let me give some background...  Basically, he had just finished explaining that God had choosen Jacob and not Esau.  In fact (and this argues directly against the &quot;God loves everyone&quot; doctrine of today&#039;s church), &quot;13As it is written, &#039;Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.&#039;&quot;  Wow!  That&#039;s actually quite scary.  God hated Esau?  That&#039;s what the Bible says, so that&#039;s what I&#039;m going to believe.  You can make the call for you.  The Greek is mesio, meaning hate or detest, used over 40 times as the same translation, so there&#039;s little doubt about the meaning.

Paul asks, as he knew his dissenters would, two basic questions, I&#039;ll start with the first...  &quot;14What shall we say then, is there injustice on God&#039;s part?&quot;  

What Paul means, and goes on to explain is that it has NOTHING to do with the will of man, but it&#039;s all about prmoting the good will and purposes of God himself.  God sais to Moses, and Paul quotes, &quot;15I will have mercy on whom I have mercy...&quot;  Paul says it this way, &quot;18he has mercy on whomever he wills.&quot;  I don&#039;t know about you, but I was always taught that it the teacher said soemthing twice, you better remember it.  Twice in three verses, I think Paul may think that&#039;s important.  

Basically, as Les has eneavored to prove using Biblical context, we&#039;re all destined for hell, and the only thing that can save us is God&#039;s mercy.  (And I think this is ultimately important in today&#039;s day and age of, &quot;Everyone is going to heaven, unless we choose not to&quot; doctrine.  That&#039;s clearly not what Paul thought.  Otherwise the verse would have read, &quot;I comdemn whom I will condemn.&quot;)

Therefore, God doesn&#039;t condemn us to hell, we do a good enough job of that on our own.  (Over and above the doctrine of original sin, if Paul said he&#039;s the worst sinner, who knows where I rank...  Whew, that&#039;s a bad thought!)  Anyway, I digress...  So, in God&#039;s ultimate wisdom, He created this ultimate plan, and He uses whoever He wants to, in whatever capacity he wants to (essentially, has mercy on whom He will have mercy) in order to promote His ends.  As Les put it, quite brilliantly, &quot;[God] plans the ends, and chooses the means.&quot;

Paul continued, knowing this brought up another question, &quot;19You will say to me them, &#039;Why does he still find fault, for who can resist his will?&#039;&quot;  Paul answers this quite harshly, &quot;20But who are you, o man, to answer back to God?&quot;  Wow, that kind of puts it in perspective, no?  He continues, using the potter and clay analogy, &quot;20Will what is molded say to its molder, &#039;Why have you made me like this?&#039;  21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?&quot;

And here&#039;s the answer to your question: Paul states, &quot;22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory&quot; 

Basically, by saving some, God is demonstrating his power to those he has saved, making known the riches of his mercy.  Let&#039;s think about this...  If there was no consequence, no punishment for sin, no hell, there would not be a need for salvation.  (In fact, if there were no punishment, we can completely throw out the need for a redeeming Savior as well, but that&#039;s a different blog.)  The elect can say (not boast), that (insert description of hell here) is what I deserve, but by God&#039;s grace and mercy, for some reason known only to God himself, not only am I not getting that, but I will be spending eternity in the presence of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  My God!!  WOW...

And one of the things I like best about Reformed theology, is after you realize that you (human, the &quot;oh man&quot; paul eluded to) are COMPLETELY removed from the salvation equation, the only thing, I repeat, the ONLY thing you have left to do is fall down at the foot of the throne and say thank you.  And logically, the next step is getting out and &quot;working out that salvation&quot;, continuing in thankfulness, for the rest of your days.  Kind of gives &quot;eternally grateful&quot; a whole new perspective...  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if any of the above posters will read this, but I&#8217;ll write it for future readers&#8230;  </p>
<p>Laura &#8211; Paul answered that question in Romans 9.  Iliaser posted it, but let me attempt to explain.  Let me give some background&#8230;  Basically, he had just finished explaining that God had choosen Jacob and not Esau.  In fact (and this argues directly against the &#8220;God loves everyone&#8221; doctrine of today&#8217;s church), &#8220;13As it is written, &#8216;Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.&#8217;&#8221;  Wow!  That&#8217;s actually quite scary.  God hated Esau?  That&#8217;s what the Bible says, so that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going to believe.  You can make the call for you.  The Greek is mesio, meaning hate or detest, used over 40 times as the same translation, so there&#8217;s little doubt about the meaning.</p>
<p>Paul asks, as he knew his dissenters would, two basic questions, I&#8217;ll start with the first&#8230;  &#8220;14What shall we say then, is there injustice on God&#8217;s part?&#8221;  </p>
<p>What Paul means, and goes on to explain is that it has NOTHING to do with the will of man, but it&#8217;s all about prmoting the good will and purposes of God himself.  God sais to Moses, and Paul quotes, &#8220;15I will have mercy on whom I have mercy&#8230;&#8221;  Paul says it this way, &#8220;18he has mercy on whomever he wills.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t know about you, but I was always taught that it the teacher said soemthing twice, you better remember it.  Twice in three verses, I think Paul may think that&#8217;s important.  </p>
<p>Basically, as Les has eneavored to prove using Biblical context, we&#8217;re all destined for hell, and the only thing that can save us is God&#8217;s mercy.  (And I think this is ultimately important in today&#8217;s day and age of, &#8220;Everyone is going to heaven, unless we choose not to&#8221; doctrine.  That&#8217;s clearly not what Paul thought.  Otherwise the verse would have read, &#8220;I comdemn whom I will condemn.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Therefore, God doesn&#8217;t condemn us to hell, we do a good enough job of that on our own.  (Over and above the doctrine of original sin, if Paul said he&#8217;s the worst sinner, who knows where I rank&#8230;  Whew, that&#8217;s a bad thought!)  Anyway, I digress&#8230;  So, in God&#8217;s ultimate wisdom, He created this ultimate plan, and He uses whoever He wants to, in whatever capacity he wants to (essentially, has mercy on whom He will have mercy) in order to promote His ends.  As Les put it, quite brilliantly, &#8220;[God] plans the ends, and chooses the means.&#8221;</p>
<p>Paul continued, knowing this brought up another question, &#8220;19You will say to me them, &#8216;Why does he still find fault, for who can resist his will?&#8217;&#8221;  Paul answers this quite harshly, &#8220;20But who are you, o man, to answer back to God?&#8221;  Wow, that kind of puts it in perspective, no?  He continues, using the potter and clay analogy, &#8220;20Will what is molded say to its molder, &#8216;Why have you made me like this?&#8217;  21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?&#8221;</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s the answer to your question: Paul states, &#8220;22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory&#8221; </p>
<p>Basically, by saving some, God is demonstrating his power to those he has saved, making known the riches of his mercy.  Let&#8217;s think about this&#8230;  If there was no consequence, no punishment for sin, no hell, there would not be a need for salvation.  (In fact, if there were no punishment, we can completely throw out the need for a redeeming Savior as well, but that&#8217;s a different blog.)  The elect can say (not boast), that (insert description of hell here) is what I deserve, but by God&#8217;s grace and mercy, for some reason known only to God himself, not only am I not getting that, but I will be spending eternity in the presence of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  My God!!  WOW&#8230;</p>
<p>And one of the things I like best about Reformed theology, is after you realize that you (human, the &#8220;oh man&#8221; paul eluded to) are COMPLETELY removed from the salvation equation, the only thing, I repeat, the ONLY thing you have left to do is fall down at the foot of the throne and say thank you.  And logically, the next step is getting out and &#8220;working out that salvation&#8221;, continuing in thankfulness, for the rest of your days.  Kind of gives &#8220;eternally grateful&#8221; a whole new perspective&#8230;  <img src='http://www.killerrobotninja.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 15:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-505</guid>
		<description>we all need God, and his saving grace.  we all are born sinners and need to accept Jesus death that covers all. not all will accept.  but i just want to say, what a sad, grim talk this is about God choosing to not save some of the human beings that he made....   the arguments go round and round... its easy to get caught up and just feel helpless, rejected or unloved by God since apparently he doesnt care to make it possible for some to be saved according to calvinism.  this debate has gone on for hundreds of years.  one thing i do know, is that i can worry over it again and again, or I can spend time praying to God, ask for help, with CALVINISM out of my mind, not worrying about if I am elect, and just praying to God that I would better know Him, love Him, and be his adopted son.  the whole calvinism debate makes my skin crawl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we all need God, and his saving grace.  we all are born sinners and need to accept Jesus death that covers all. not all will accept.  but i just want to say, what a sad, grim talk this is about God choosing to not save some of the human beings that he made&#8230;.   the arguments go round and round&#8230; its easy to get caught up and just feel helpless, rejected or unloved by God since apparently he doesnt care to make it possible for some to be saved according to calvinism.  this debate has gone on for hundreds of years.  one thing i do know, is that i can worry over it again and again, or I can spend time praying to God, ask for help, with CALVINISM out of my mind, not worrying about if I am elect, and just praying to God that I would better know Him, love Him, and be his adopted son.  the whole calvinism debate makes my skin crawl.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliaser Nghipangelwa</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliaser Nghipangelwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-461</guid>
		<description>to Laura Merrill  The Bible didn’t say God has created some people for hell no, But we know God knows the destine of every one, that is why hi is God.  Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
 12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 
 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
 14 ¶ What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 
 21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 
 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to Laura Merrill  The Bible didn’t say God has created some people for hell no, But we know God knows the destine of every one, that is why hi is God.  Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.<br />
 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;<br />
 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)<br />
 12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.<br />
 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.<br />
 14 ¶ What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.<br />
 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.<br />
 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.<br />
 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.<br />
 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.<br />
 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?<br />
 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?<br />
 21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:<br />
 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,</p>
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		<title>By: Eliaser Nghipangelwa</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliaser Nghipangelwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-460</guid>
		<description>I believe God choose people himself not because is what I want but because is what the Bible says. There are so many verses in the Bible says that. As for me I don t know the scriptures say a man can choose God where did they get it is not maybe demonic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe God choose people himself not because is what I want but because is what the Bible says. There are so many verses in the Bible says that. As for me I don t know the scriptures say a man can choose God where did they get it is not maybe demonic?</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Merrill</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Merrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 03:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-457</guid>
		<description>I still haven&#039;t heard an answer to why would God create a person and not choose them to be saved?  Isn&#039;t it &quot;So God so loved the WORLD?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still haven&#8217;t heard an answer to why would God create a person and not choose them to be saved?  Isn&#8217;t it &#8220;So God so loved the WORLD?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-450</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re almost there Les.  You got it all right up to where you say God will not choose some and let them eternaly suffer in in Hell.  The greek word &quot;aion&quot; is trasnlated both in the temporal sense and the eternal sense in most translations today.  Both cannot be correct. And if you study just a little greek you will see that it must be translated as an &quot;age&quot; or &quot;agelong&quot; to be truly consistant in scripture.  This will put quite a twist on those few passages like &quot;eternal torment&quot; or eternal punishment&quot;.  
So you are saying that God puts us into this world, without any say from us, we are born sinners in a sinfilled world, tempted by greatest temptor ever, Satan, for a very short perion of time, 60-80 years.  And then, we have no say so at all to be saved or not.  Then we go to Hell and are painfully tormented not just for the number of years we lived on this earth, not one year for every sin we commited, not even one million years for every sin we commited, but for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.
The jist is this.  God does choose some, for now, in this age, for a purpose.  The others will come to know and trust in Christ later.  Re-read Romans 5 and 1 cor. 15.  All means all.  The Roman Catholic Church adopted this eternal torment doctrine from the pagan beliefs of the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians as a means to control the masses.  Unfortunately, the Reformation, although it did free us from many dangerous doctrines, it didn&#039;t free us from one of the biggest lies the enemy has ever told.  Just do a little study on this people and let God lead you.  Don&#039;t let others mar and disfigure the character of God into a sadistic torturer.  God DOES have the power to save ALL mankind and God WILL save ALL mankind, despite ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re almost there Les.  You got it all right up to where you say God will not choose some and let them eternaly suffer in in Hell.  The greek word &#8220;aion&#8221; is trasnlated both in the temporal sense and the eternal sense in most translations today.  Both cannot be correct. And if you study just a little greek you will see that it must be translated as an &#8220;age&#8221; or &#8220;agelong&#8221; to be truly consistant in scripture.  This will put quite a twist on those few passages like &#8220;eternal torment&#8221; or eternal punishment&#8221;.<br />
So you are saying that God puts us into this world, without any say from us, we are born sinners in a sinfilled world, tempted by greatest temptor ever, Satan, for a very short perion of time, 60-80 years.  And then, we have no say so at all to be saved or not.  Then we go to Hell and are painfully tormented not just for the number of years we lived on this earth, not one year for every sin we commited, not even one million years for every sin we commited, but for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.<br />
The jist is this.  God does choose some, for now, in this age, for a purpose.  The others will come to know and trust in Christ later.  Re-read Romans 5 and 1 cor. 15.  All means all.  The Roman Catholic Church adopted this eternal torment doctrine from the pagan beliefs of the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians as a means to control the masses.  Unfortunately, the Reformation, although it did free us from many dangerous doctrines, it didn&#8217;t free us from one of the biggest lies the enemy has ever told.  Just do a little study on this people and let God lead you.  Don&#8217;t let others mar and disfigure the character of God into a sadistic torturer.  God DOES have the power to save ALL mankind and God WILL save ALL mankind, despite ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Les</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-410</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re missing the fact that no one wants God. So if you do want God, it&#039;s because you&#039;ve been born again. 

The idea that people are going to want to come to God and He&#039;s going to turn them away is not Calvinistic. It&#039;s a made up accusation.

Everyone who calls on the name of Jesus for salvation will be saved... and the only people who will do that are the people God has changed by His sovereign grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re missing the fact that no one wants God. So if you do want God, it&#8217;s because you&#8217;ve been born again. </p>
<p>The idea that people are going to want to come to God and He&#8217;s going to turn them away is not Calvinistic. It&#8217;s a made up accusation.</p>
<p>Everyone who calls on the name of Jesus for salvation will be saved&#8230; and the only people who will do that are the people God has changed by His sovereign grace.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-407</guid>
		<description>All these days and I&#039;m still not ready to comment. Heads still spinning after listening to John MacArthur, reading Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards....


Still thinking about things in the same basic way. I may want God, but what do I do if God doesn&#039;t want me? You can call me Esau.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these days and I&#8217;m still not ready to comment. Heads still spinning after listening to John MacArthur, reading Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards&#8230;.</p>
<p>Still thinking about things in the same basic way. I may want God, but what do I do if God doesn&#8217;t want me? You can call me Esau.</p>
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		<title>By: Les</title>
		<link>http://www.killerrobotninja.com/the-basics-does-god-choose-to-save-certain-people/comment-page-1/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerrobotninja.com/?p=681#comment-389</guid>
		<description>&quot;How do I know I one of the elect?&quot;

That&#039;s simple enough. 

Everyone sins, saved and unsaved, so falling on your face shouldn&#039;t make you doubt your salvation... it should remind us of the reason Christ had to come for us.

The way you know you&#039;re saved is: Do you love the God of the Bible? Do you want to serve Him? Do you desire to live a holy life?(note I didn&#039;t say you&#039;d accomplish your desire) Do you hate sin? Do you love your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Again, you&#039;ve already heard the answer, and sound theology doesn&#039;t change. refer back to depravity. 

Natural man does not want God as revealed in Scripture. Regenerate man wants more than anything God as revealed in Scripture. 

Do you want God? There&#039;s your answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How do I know I one of the elect?&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s simple enough. </p>
<p>Everyone sins, saved and unsaved, so falling on your face shouldn&#8217;t make you doubt your salvation&#8230; it should remind us of the reason Christ had to come for us.</p>
<p>The way you know you&#8217;re saved is: Do you love the God of the Bible? Do you want to serve Him? Do you desire to live a holy life?(note I didn&#8217;t say you&#8217;d accomplish your desire) Do you hate sin? Do you love your brothers and sisters in Christ?</p>
<p>Again, you&#8217;ve already heard the answer, and sound theology doesn&#8217;t change. refer back to depravity. </p>
<p>Natural man does not want God as revealed in Scripture. Regenerate man wants more than anything God as revealed in Scripture. </p>
<p>Do you want God? There&#8217;s your answer.</p>
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